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Hey all,
I finally got Dottie ('79, stock engine) back together after the timing chain broke 6 weeks ago (thanks for the timing cover fuferman!). She cranks when I turn the key but the engine won't start. I lined the crank pulley notch to the 0 on the timing guide (this is TDC, right?) and made sure the rotor in the distributor was lined up with #1 spark plug wire but still she won't turn over. After that, I tried rotating the distributor by a small amount each direction and tried to get her to start but she wouldn't. Then I tried slowly rotaing the distributor a full 360 degrees while someone cranked the engine to no avail.

Any ideas what I should try or check for that I might have done wrong in putting her back together? I was careful about getting the chain on properly in relation to the crank and cam.

I put in a brand new battery, starter, ignition coil, alternator, voltage regulator, condenser, points, rotor, as well as all the timing stuff (chain, tensioner, gears, guides). The plugs and wires are about a year old. and yes she has gas (and it is coming into the carb). Thanks!

Does it crank the same as it used to? Did you line the cam up correctly also, or just the crank to TDC?

It does sound like it used to when I crank it, maybe a little more powerful (because of the new starter?) I am pretty sure the cam and crank were lined up properly when I put her back together, but it is not a bad idea to check that again, thanks. other ideas????

Are you getting spark? What about fuel?

_________________
Previous setup: 4.1 Buick V-6/TH 350
Current setup: 400 Small Block Chevy V-8/TH 350
9" ford rear end/short bed/blue
What do Water, Electricity and Humans have in common... They all travel the path of least resistance.

ok here's the problem i had with mine. check your crank pully and make sure it's on right. yes it can go on backwords. make sure the timing notch on the pully is on the engine side and not facing the radiator. and check the compression. you could have bent a valve when the chain broke.

_________________
1980 luv 1.8 finally running!!!...... and then like a moron i sold it
got another one!!! 1980 mikado. v8 swap here we come... nope divorce and cross country move happened.
got another one!!! 1980 4x4 mikado sport. rusty beater for now...

Compression test is what I was thinking too. That will also tell you if the timing chain is not in the right position.

It sounds like you *might* have it 180 degree out. My 80 was like that when I got it, and no amount of turning the distributor even clear around got it to start. Once I confirmed it was indeed 180 off, I swapped the plug wires around and it fired right up. You just swap them with the wire directly across, so 1 for 4 and 2 for 3. Point the distributor so the advance is pointing directly back and then a little bit toward the engine block. That should get you timing that is in the right neighborhood.

I did a post a while back that walked through the steps to check alignment of the cam, crank, and distributor gear, here is the basic steps from it:

To check for misaligned disti drive gear:

Remove valve cover
Turn the motor so the timing mark on the crank pulley is at 0 degrees
Check the valves to see which are fully closed (rocker should have a little slack)
You want #4 both valves closed, #2 exhaust and #3 intake closed to put the #4 cylinder in firing position. There is also a mark on the camshaft gear and on the rocker bracket right behind it, they should line up I believe, but as long as the valves are closed on #4 (not #1) and the mark on the gear is straight up and down it is right.

Pull the disti and look down the hole. (You can pull the cap and look what wire the rotor points at, but pulling the works you can be more precise)

The slot in the gear at the bottom should be straight up and down, and it will be offset toward the front. If its offset toward the back or not straight up and down then you know its in there wrong. Find a way to line up the rotor with the #4 wire on the cap and you can work around it.

_________________
95 Isuzu Trooper Daily Driver
86 Isuzu Trooper reliable backup
77 LUV 2wd stock beltway blaster (resting)
79 4x4 LUV project: 2.6L, 5spd, 31s (eventually)

MEPR: Man, my 4x4 makes all other LUVs look good

Thanks a lot for all your suggestions, they gave me good places to look. I have some updates now.

Fuel is getting to the carb OK.

The crank pulley is on properly (notch is toward engine not radiator).

I tried swapping 1 and 4 wires and 2 and 3 on the dist. but truck didn't start.

Compression is now cylinder
1: 125
2: 120
3: 120
4: 120

It used to be 160, 150, 150, 150 before she broke down. What does this tell me with the new lower readings? I figure it may be lower because the engine wasn't hot when I did the compression test this time. Is there another explanation? Do these numbers also mean that the cam and crank gears and chain are on properly (I haven't taken the valve cover off yet to check).

The big discovery is that I am not getting sparks from the plugs. I traced it back to the coil, I am not getting a spark from the ignition coil wire (that goes to the distributor) either. So I tested the coil wire in another vehicle (it was OK). I took the coil out and measured the resistance of the primary coil and it was 1.4 ohms (within specs range 1.33 to 1.44). The secondary coil resistance was OK too, 9.13 K ohms (range 7.65-9.35). It was insulated OK too. It is about a year old, so this makes sense (I have a brand new one too that has a reading of 1.6 ohms for the primary coil (It is out of specs, but should it work OK anyway?))

I tested the resistor that sits on top of the coil and that was within specs too 1.5 ohms (OK range 1.3 - 1.7)

My brand new battery died while trying to crank the engine so much over the past week. I am recharging it now. could that be the problem?

So, oh wise and great Luv gurus, why am I not getting a spark? The starter is new and cranks well.

Thanks a lot!

Is the black w red stripe wire connected to the points lead on the distributor? Is the point gap set correctly? Is there a rotor under the cap?
If the points dont open or if it's not connected, it wont produce any spark.

_________________
Previous setup: 4.1 Buick V-6/TH 350
Current setup: 400 Small Block Chevy V-8/TH 350
9" ford rear end/short bed/blue
What do Water, Electricity and Humans have in common... They all travel the path of least resistance.

First I'd say get some spark going. My only suggestion to add to what has been said on that is to try hooking a wire directly from the battery to the coil to be sure it is getting power. You can also go right to the coil (skipping the resistor) but it should not be left hooked up that way for too long.

The lower compression numbers do make me wonder though. If the cam timing was off by a few teeth it could cause low compression. Damaged valves could also, but your numbers are not that low and all very uniform so damage seems a bit less likely. The other factor could be valves needing adjustment, but unless you changed that it should have stayed the same.

Once you get some spark confirmed working, I'd look at the timing chain again and make sure it is aligned right.

_________________
95 Isuzu Trooper Daily Driver
86 Isuzu Trooper reliable backup
77 LUV 2wd stock beltway blaster (resting)
79 4x4 LUV project: 2.6L, 5spd, 31s (eventually)

MEPR: Man, my 4x4 makes all other LUVs look good

thanks!

the black with red stripe wire is going from the ignition coil negative terminal to the little bolt on the side of the distributor body that the condenser wire attaches to as well. Is that right? (condenser is new too by the way)

I have a new rotor under the cap.

I believe the point gap is set correctly. Blue Meanie, if it is not, could this prevent the spark from coming out of the center wire of the coil??? (It is new points too (single point/gap))

800xl, I am getting 11.87 volts of power through the coil when I hook up the red wire of the testing meter to the positive terminal of the coil and the negative wire to a ground. So I am thinking that it is getting power from the battery. Is that true? Did I do that test right?

I also have a black wire with a blue stripe hooked to the positive terminal of the coil. Is that right?

The starter has the heavy duty red wire coming from the positive battery terminal, and a black wire with a white stripe coming of a little screw on top. Are those correct?

thanks again for all your help!

Yes, if the points are not set correctly, it will not produce spark.

Bring the motor to #1 TDC.
Remove the cap and rotor.
Look at the points... With #1 at TDC, there should be a gap.
The points should be riding on the high spot of the lobe.

I cant remember the specs for point gap, but it should be on the sticker under the hood.

_________________
Previous setup: 4.1 Buick V-6/TH 350
Current setup: 400 Small Block Chevy V-8/TH 350
9" ford rear end/short bed/blue
What do Water, Electricity and Humans have in common... They all travel the path of least resistance.

And you did get the black/Red stripe and Black/ Blue stripe wires correctly.

_________________
Previous setup: 4.1 Buick V-6/TH 350
Current setup: 400 Small Block Chevy V-8/TH 350
9" ford rear end/short bed/blue
What do Water, Electricity and Humans have in common... They all travel the path of least resistance.

just one little thing i can see. you said you hooked the tester to the posotive on the coil and the ground to A ground. make sure you test the ground to the coil. and like 800xl said i'm also concerned about the compression. but get some spark first

_________________
1980 luv 1.8 finally running!!!...... and then like a moron i sold it
got another one!!! 1980 mikado. v8 swap here we come... nope divorce and cross country move happened.
got another one!!! 1980 4x4 mikado sport. rusty beater for now...

WOOO HOOO!!!! After two months, she is runnin' like a champ! Thank you so much for your help you guys, I couldn't have done it without ya! It turns out that my point gap was too wide. I didn't have a gauge but I used a matchbook and that worked.

I also took the valve cover off to double check that the gears were lined up according to your instructions and they seemed to be OK. I haven't had a chance to check the compression while the motor is hot but we'll see if the numbers go up when I do.

Also, something totally dumb of me that probably led to the truck not getting spark... The rubber sheaths at the ends of the wire from the ignition coil to the distributor had been shoved forward so much that the wires ends were too deep inside them to make contact with the coil and dist cap when fastened on! I think it was a combination of that and having the point gap about 5 times wider than it should have been that made it not have spark.

Thanks again, next project, the rear driver's side brake that is leaking fluid!!!! Rock on!

Get your timing set correctly and check the point gap again. Incorrect point gap will lead to burning up a set of points in a hurry. Point gap affects ignition timing so you might want to go over that a few times to get it right on.
If you can get your hands on a dwell meter, you can get the points set within factory specs and not have to worry about cooking the points.

Man, I know the feeling of getting a motor running thats been fighting all the way. Those low compression #s seem to be as though you didn't have the throttle open during the test. Even though the truck is running good, do a compression check soon just to have peace of mind.

_________________
Previous setup: 4.1 Buick V-6/TH 350
Current setup: 400 Small Block Chevy V-8/TH 350
9" ford rear end/short bed/blue
What do Water, Electricity and Humans have in common... They all travel the path of least resistance.

That's great news Dottie, you came out lucky on that one, my Timing chain just broke, it took out the crank pulley,tensioner, guide bolts,timing cover and two intake valves and what sucks about it is this motor only has about 1,000 miles on it, some jack-leg mechanics had to rebuild it after they locked it up and of course they didn't change they timing chain which was worn....
Anyway as I get this one back together I'll probably be asking you for some tips....

thanks Blue Meanie!
I just regapped the points now that I have the proper tool and checked the timing again and she is purring! Also bled the back brake and the brake light is no longer shining at me Will check the compression again this week when there is time.

Jingles, sorry to hear it man I know EXACTLY how you feel Feel free to ask me anything you have questions on, it is all very fresh in my mind. good luck and have patience.

rock on all y'all!

Dottie, when setting up the firing order, is the #1 in the rear? and if so , what valves were open/closed,if you remember...I have a Chilton Manual but it doesn't show this engine or any of the timing specs. Also the timing chains are supposed to have 2 different colored links on them to set the cam and crank in time, but the one I got doesn't have the different colored links, guess it doesn't matter as long as the 2 cam/crank are lined up......Thanks in advance....

put your crank at tdc #1 "the front one".
the cam has a little line on it. on the little raised portion right behind the sprocket. it's close to the alignment pin. line that up with the little line on the front of the first cam bearing cap. it should be straight up. then put the chain on with it tight on the driver-side. hope that's what you needed good luck

_________________
1980 luv 1.8 finally running!!!...... and then like a moron i sold it
got another one!!! 1980 mikado. v8 swap here we come... nope divorce and cross country move happened.
got another one!!! 1980 4x4 mikado sport. rusty beater for now...

fuferman,so you're saying #1 is at the front and not back right? The way I've got it set right now is the keyway on the crank at 6'oclock, putting the number 2&3 cylinders at TDC w/the cam pulley arrow pointing at 10' oclock, with the arrow in that position it puts the dot straight up on the camshaft...That's how the spec sheet someone gave me showed it...Please let me know if I'm wrong...I can't afford to have anymore bent valves....