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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:07 pm 
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LUVTruck.com Lifer

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:34 pm
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Dont know about that Jack.

When the new body shape came out in the Pup, the TF series that replaced the KB, they went to a beefier box with the 2.6L motor. They also still had the 2.3L as an option but we did not get them down here (ours were all 2.6L) so i can not comment too much on that but im pretty sure they still had the old gearbox.

There are 3 different output splines and 2 different gearboxes. They all interchange with the correct tailshaft yolk.

Theres the MSG gearbox. It was in all the 76 on luvs with a coarse output spline. It later changed to a fine output spline.
Then when the 2.3L and the 2L turbo Impulse came along it got a beefed up output shaft, still the same gearbox but uses a larger spline (same as Luv and Trooper 4x4). (the impulse and the half ton rated 2.3L used the same ratio set and these boxes are soft as crap and had issues with the hard facing wearing off the front of the main shaft and making all kinds of whining noises)

Then with the 2.6L in 88 the MUA gearbox. This is a hydraulic clutch and it has the same larger output spline and is the same bellhousing pattern and length was the same and the mount on the back is in the same spot but is slightly bigger in the belly of the box, so its 'beefed' up. Easily identified by the fact that where the remote shifter bolts onto it that section of the box is flat and parrallel to the output shaft, it does not slope down at the back like the eralir gearboxes.


With the body shape change was also a change in the track of the diff. And it went up from a 10 to a 12 bolt.


Just a little something on the tailshafts.
If you had say a 2.3L or 2.6L 5 speed and you put that in your LWB/SWB luv. If you got the tail shaft out of a 4x4 Luv with the same wheel base as your Luv it would be an exact fit lengthwise and the yolk on the front would fit and the yolk for the diff would fit. The 5 speed 2x4 transmissions are the same length as the 4 speed 4x4 transmissions.



I take it that the I-mark was not a popular car in the US?? They were here. Basic spec was a 4 speed but many had 5 speeds and the Gemini as it was called here, were great to raid for engines and 5 speeds.
Half way thought the TE model they changed the output spline count on the tailshaft. (say around 81). so there are allways guys looking for the correct tailshaft to fit a transmission.

I have a rule, if you buy a transmission make sure it comes with the tailshaft. That way you know you will have the yolk that fits it.


Dont get me started on Ratios. Why oh Why didnt Isuzu put external markings on the gearboxes to indicate the internal ratios.



I wish we had 3.73 diff gears here. Im stuck with 4.11 and even they are rare.


I might follow that thing up about the gearboxes with some photos in a few days.

And thanks for the tip on the springs. I had a pair of Trooper ones here to use in my Luv, i think i turfed them out. Ive got an 85 Pup for donor bits so i know not to ue the springs. I will have to get the ones out of the Luv and give them a birthday. I think i might spend a day at my mates place and dissasemble them and reset the ride height in the press.

Cheers, Bob.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:51 am 
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Wow, that was too long for my simple mind. However...
rodeobob wrote:
When the new body shape came out in the Pup, the TF series that replaced the KB, they went to a beefier box with the 2.6L motor. They also still had the 2.3L as an option but we did not get them down here (ours were all 2.6L) so i can not comment too much on that but im pretty sure they still had the old gearbox.
First, there was no new body shape for the P'up. The TF replaced the P'up (over here, anyway). The P'up name only referred to the KB (at least in the U.S.) And yes, they still had the "old gearbox" and as you mentioned, it was beefed up for the 2.3--that was in '86 not '88, in the P'up and was carried over into the TF series Pickup. So my point was, if you're looking for an MSG, you can use any of them from '81-'95, but the '86 and later ones are highly preferred. Yes, the '86-'95 MSG had the different spline count from the previous version, but if someone is building a custom driveline, I think that's easily remedied as you say, by using "the correct tailshaft yolk" (actually "yoke").

Yes, the MUA came here in '88 (too late for the P'up) with the 2.6--but I was commenting on the post by dirtylil177, and he referred to the MSG transmission, not the MUA.

Jack

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:16 am 
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LUVTruck.com Lifer

Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:34 pm
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
My bad i thought the TF was called the Pup too.

Would be too simple if they were all colled Rodeos like here in Australia.


The beefed up MSG actaully came about in 85 when the 2.3L motor came out.

For the age of them now i would be lookin at using an MUA gearbox. They are not too expensive, they are stronger and the fit in the same spot. As a bonus, they have the remote shifter, well its only a bonus if you are not wanting to keep the bench seat.
While your getting the MUA gearbox, grab the reduction starter motor as well.
The 2.3L had them as well, if its going cheap its a good idea to grab one.


Bob.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:44 pm 
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da LUV masta
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sadly................there are no diesel bell-housing MUA transes in the USA only GAS
:cry:
sence 1987 was the last diesel year, and 4x4 MSG year.

1988 was the first MUA year :x grrrrrr

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:57 pm 
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LUVTruck.com Lifer

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So from 88 on, the TF and Trooper had only the 2.3L or 2.6L Gas motors.

You did not get the 2.5L diesel and the 2.8L Turbo diesel??? Im pretty sure these had the starter motor on the drivers/LH side. They were the MUA trans, that i am sure of.


Bob.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:49 pm 
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da LUV masta
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Location: MP 48~ on OR US 30
the only engine we got, with the starter on the, the :? the drivers side :?: are you thinking UK driver side, or usa drivers side :lol:

USA gas starters are on the passenger side and the only diesel we got 81/87 C223 or 86/87 C223-T are on are drivers side
no we did not get the C190 2.5L 2.8L 3.0L or the 3.1L road spec diesels, just some 4JD1 and 4JD2 diesels (3.9L) in N\A and turbo in the NPR cab-over trucks
there are some industreal C190 C201 C240 and a few 4JB1 N\A engines in case skid steers.

any way 86/87 are the only years the trooper had the 2.3L
84/85 it had the 1.9L gas and a 4 speed MSG no need for the O\D :lol:
88/91 it had a 2.6L or a.......GM 2.8 V-6 oh yea, good times keeping those things running...and a wopping 25HP~ more than the 2.6L :roll:

thus staying with the topic of the thred.......86/87 are the only years in the usa that there was a 4x4 MSG 5 speed
all other MSG 4x4 years, are a 4 speed

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84 S\B 4X4 gas rust bucket 1.9
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the twins, 81 pup and 81 LUV both are diesel 2.2



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:20 pm 
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i have a late 80's isuzu trans,driveshaft and rearend will it bolt up to 76 luv? want to know before i go tearing things up...


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:05 pm 
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sorry got a 89 isuzu truck for parts . going into a 1976 4x2 luv


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 7:01 pm 
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just tore into mine and found that the clutch is on the pass. side. on the 1976 and on the drivers on the 1989 trans. So does anyone know where i can get a patch panel to fill the hole. Also need a shifter boot the one that goes on the trans itself,fork boot too. thanks p.s. has hydro clutch.....


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:52 pm 
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LUVTruck.com Lifer

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Doesnt matter what side it is on.


What you might find is that one is cable and the 89 is Hydraulic. Its not easy to make the 89 cable. You need a 72-75 pedal setup becuase they were hydraulic. Or modify the bits from the donor truck to fit uder the dash in your luv.



Bob.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:59 am 
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rodeobob 76 is hydraulic 89 is cable. probly going to cut out tbe boss on pass side. thanks


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:47 am 
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LUVTruck.com Lifer

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Your 89 must be a 2.3L then??? That right??? If its a 2.6L it should be hydraulic and have a remote shifter on the gearbox.


Get a newer than 76 pedal from a Luv, it should be cable.



Bob.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 12:49 pm 
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thanks rodeobob


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:55 pm 
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LUVTruck.com Lifer

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Dont be too quick to thank me.


Does your luv still go???
If it does get yourelf to a wrecking yard or a member whos parting/wrecking a 77-81 luv and compare the two. The pedals may or may not just change over. The fire wall will be different as one will have a mount for a master cylinder for the clutch and the other will have a keeper/holder in the firewall for that end of the cable.
The way it usually works is the cable attaches to the pedal above the piviot and the pushrod for a mastercylinder goes on the pedal arm below the piviot if the master cylinder it is out in the engine bay.

What i did see once in an old Trooper that had a rusted fire wall/bulkhead around the cable holder so they cut that same part from the bulkhead in another Trooper/pup and then it was riveted to the bulkhead in the Trooper. You could do the same/similar. Best to have it on the engine side of the bulkhead, but it might look a bit ugly out there.


Cheers, Bob.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:52 pm 
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rodeobob, i went and cut out the pass side clutch fork hole and used a 3/8 drill and a jig saw to do it. then took a piece of dimondplate alum. to make a filler panel for the old one... the only question now is the fork for a hydraulic. but the good news is that i have 2 1976 luvs ,one thats getting a v8 so i can use it for parts. let you know on how it goes ... the dude


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 3:55 pm 
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Okay everybody, which cluch do you use the one for the five speed 1989 model or the 1976 orginal clutch. does it matter ? also going with a hydraulic clutch hope to have pic soon...


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:40 pm 
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When I did my 5 speed swap, I used my stock flywheel, (so that my starter would still bolt up and work properly), I installed the heaviest clutch disk/pressure plate I could, and then used the appropriate throwout bearing.

Unless you are hauling heavy loads or are very hard on clutches, I personally wouldn't agonize too much on your setup. I drive the hell out of my '78 stepside with a built up Impulse G200z 4 banger engine under the hood (plus I have hauled a few heavy items and pulled a small trailer), and my clutch setup has been just fine.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:24 am 
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My question is are the splines different or are they the same. their within a few dollars of each other as a kit from the parts store...


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 9:51 pm 
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da LUV masta

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AZDUDE wrote:
Okay everybody, which cluch do you use the one for the five speed 1989 model or the 1976 orginal clutch. does it matter ? also going with a hydraulic clutch hope to have pic soon...


Hey AZDUDE. I'm curious which route you went. Got an update?

Eric Q.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:29 pm 
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have went to a hydraulic clutch . use a howe pull type slave cylinder from summit . and some 3/8 alum plate for a bracket. try to get some pic to show yall. used the same clutch fork just put it on the passanger side where the stock one is on the 76.. have'nt got to the pluming yet but that should 'nt be hard. AZdude


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