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Old Rob, you need to meet Kenny Duttweiler, he builds the best Buick V-6's in the U.S. documented. I dare you to bring a V-8 against Kenny's V-6, you will have your a%% in a hand. Don't believe me, try him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDGjBRgqljM

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Certified pilots, looking down on people since 1903.

Just to clear the air, theres no finger pointing here.... im not saying the buick is better than the small block, or my piece of junk is any better than anyones, because a SBC has a special spot in my heart. so all smiles here gentlemen, im just trying to get a rise and add a little pep to the board.

My only point being that, there are tons of alternatives, and for the novice - the SBC is the best answer! it makes awesome power, and is very easy and cheap to build! GREEEAAT engine... I do love the SBC!!!!

A buick, on the other hand, takes a special person.... in all aspects of the engine. Its VERY expensive to build, very particular about the way its built..... and extremly tempermental! But its different, makes gobs of power...... and is im my opinion, a real breeze to swap.

so for the guy asking on the swap........... I concur........... go with the small block. You have to be ready to love a V6.... its not an easy choice.

for the old salts though....... id love to race ya! WildLuvRacing, is who id like to get a crack at first!

A.j.


sorry for stirring the pot.................... its been quiet in here!

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykgDNjeTa0g

Let's leave your fiction out.
Even this Kenny person will have to admit the following FACTS

The Buick V6 will not make as much power per cubic inch as a Chevy small block in an open build senario!!!!!
There are very few if any, records in unlimited class racing held by Buick V6's, very few in pounds per cubic inch.

He may be getting lots of power from the Buick V6. There are also a lot of us that have gotten lots of power thru the years from the small block Chevy's, Pontiac's, Ford's, Old's, Chrysler, etc, even Buick's. Per dollar and or per cubic inch no one has ever gotten more than the small block with the exception of the Hemi's or exotic engines. We are talking American production engines.

Here's a quiz for you.
1. How many Buick V6's have won in NASCAR?
2. How many Buick V8's have won in NASCAR?
3. How many Buick V6's have won in Pro Stock?
4. How many Buick V6's have won in road racing?
5. Can you directly measure "Horse Power"?

Word of caution about challenging people that you know nothing of their background, affiliations etc. I make no claims to being the best, however I have held my own and I do know what Horsepower really is and how to make it.

If you can dis-prove any of my stated facts, produce valid documentation to that affect and I will retract them.

Sorry to others for this, however I believe in giving facts not rhetoric. For the record there is a statement that I've used and it applies in the V6 vs V8 regardless of make, "What ever blows your dress up"

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The light at the end of the tunnel, may just be a train coming!

now were having fun............

A.j.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykgDNjeTa0g

Come on down and I will introduce to Kenny, he has plenty to say about your facts as I have spoken to him about this. You want proof, come on down to Ventura County, Kenny has plenty of it for you.

The Buick V-6 was never allowed in Nascar, Nascar would not approve it. I have never seen a V-6 in Pro-Stock of anykind, NHRA looked down on it as per Cruz Pentagon.

You said a V-6 will not make the same HP as a V-8, I am just saying the right person can make it happen and has for years. Have you ever seen Billy Chaffins LASO police car look alike run with Kenny's V-6? It puts alot of V-8's on the trailer.
Buick in Nascar
http://home.flash.net/~rjgeorge/nascar.htm

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Certified pilots, looking down on people since 1903.

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Click on C.M. logo to go to my webpage


RIP R.J.B.

thats some funny stuff

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zyanug
75 luv stepside... Work in progress
76 fleetside 350hp 1968 327cu
"No replacement for displacement!"
___/__l____
[_@l__l__@_]***

Buddy Ingersoll ran Pro Stock with the v6 Buick, but the outlawed it due to the power adder...

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If you think no one cares, try missing a couple of payments...



FIAA!

SFPP!

Anyone can say anything they wish, and I'm sure he's made good power from the V6. HOWEVER you have failed to invalidate my statement. The Buick V6 does not make as much power as a SB Chevy per cubic inch! We won't go into gross power.

"The Buick V-6 was never allowed in Nascar, Nascar would not approve it. I have never seen a V-6 in Pro-Stock of anykind, NHRA looked down on it as per Cruz Pentagon."
FACT; Nascar had a whole class of competition that was exclusively Buick V6. I've seen some 300+ cubic inch V6's.
In the Seventies when NASCAR outlawed the large V8's , there were some who tried to develope the V6 for cup as they tried for Indy cars. NASCAR created the series as mentioned above.
I don't know what Cruz has got to do with it, I'll have to ask him if I remember, I havn't talked to him in several years and I don't remember, I think it was at Forces or Velasquez's place.
As to NHRA Pro Stock, there was a few, again a Cubic inch per pound and they were not competitive and switched. Some were upset because NHRA would not allow them to run turbo's to try and be competitive.

"You said a V-6 will not make the same HP as a V-8, I am just saying the right person can make it happen and has for years."

Again No naturally aspired Buick will or has yet made the same or more power per cubic inch.

"Have you ever seen Billy Chaffins LASO police car look alike run with Kenny's V-6? It puts alot of V-8's on the trailer."
Again, no doubt as this is in a form of bracket racing, not unlimited, no pound per cubic inch or limits on what you can run, even turbo, nitrous. If that's the car I think it is, it's on the bottle and runs low 9's, high 8's. We won't go into the competition.

Answers
1. How many Buick V6's have won in NASCAR?
Actually quite a few as there was a NASCAR national series that was mandated to Buick V6's.
2. How many Buick V8's have won in NASCAR?
Buicks ran in NASCAR in the 50's and I believe there were a few.
3. How many Buick V6's have won in Pro Stock?
None, even in the early years with the small engines, they were not competitive.
4. How many Buick V6's have won in road racing?
I'm not sure on this one, maybe a few. I don't know if anyone tried them in the Can Am / Trans Am series.
5. Can you directly measure "Horse Power"?
You can not measure Horsepower directly as it is a function not an absoulute.

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The light at the end of the tunnel, may just be a train coming!

I was wondering when this would be brought up, he sure scared some people with that little Stage 2...

heres a link

http://www.competitionplus.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=7320&Itemid=24

A.j.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykgDNjeTa0g

Did you forget to look at this link
http://home.flash.net/~rjgeorge/nascar.htm

Im sorry, you forgot to aknowledge that. You walk around here like you own the place, just keeping you in check.

Cruz was mentioned because I called him and asked him, I help out with his Sprint Car racing.

Again, come on down and meet Kenny, he has built several low 8 door slammers that are on thr street.

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Certified pilots, looking down on people since 1903.

Dose this mean that my warmed over 455 Buick with 550+ lbs. of torque is no good? Oh and a 455 is cheaper to build then a BBC but only to a point 550 HP is about the break point then the BBC wins hands down.
Also the Buick V6 did race in Nascar just not in the top cup cars.
Also Buddy Ingersolls V6 wasn't DQ'd because of the turbo but because the 500 in. motor guys were scared of it and got together to have it banned.This was kind of funny as Buddys V6 was closer to true pro "stock" then the other cars.

I have a big spoon so stirring the pot is fun and easy

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1978 pro street step/side 455Buick, 4sp,4.11s, 31/18.5s

** sniffle ** sob ** sniffle **

Ive never seen so much support for the ol' 6 lung before!!!!!!!!! ** sniffle ** so beautyful................ brings a tear to my eye! I thought I was the only one who thought the buick was a decent swap!

I wish my boys over at TurboBuick.Com could see this!

A.j.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykgDNjeTa0g

Again you go off the original statement. "The Buick V6 will not produce the same power per cubic inch as the Chevy small block." This given the same parameters for each build. Not talking turbo vs non turbo.

Since we were talking engines, I did not acknowledge the NASCAR Buick body with Chevy engine cars. Just the Buick engine powered cars. There were also Pontiacs and Olds bodied cars that won in those years and won with thier own engines in the 50's and 60's.

You can not seriouslly think we should be comparing forced induction vs natural aspiration engines. There two different beast and the only comparison number that you can use is gross power. Again I'm comparing "power per cubic inch"
given the same parameters for each build. Do you think it would be valid to compare the Turbo Buick to a Turbo small block chevy. Again there the turbo chevy produces more power per cubic inch.
Put a turbo or supercharger on any engine can significantly change its output. Look at a 1935 Cord or more recently the Avanti with its supercharged 289(?) CI engine of American Motors design. I believe it was 1964 and they claimed somewhere close to 200mph. Thats a lot faster than the cop car that would be taking you to jail if you did that on the highway. I would like to have one of those, original that is, or maybe an Avanti II. Forced induction goes way back in time especially on diesels, superchargers and turbo's.
In pro stock maybe they should have made the rules to allow forced induction for all. Would Ingersol's car then been competitive? Rules are there to try and create an equal playing field for all in a given class of competition. Should they legalize steroids for selective sports players, would that be a fair way to govern a sport. Artificial enhancment by some countries allready causes proplems in the international community. Going off subject, however an interesting debate.
I've seen twin turbo drag cars in the blown gas, Funny car and top fuel tried. At the time of each the turbos just couldn't get the power of the positive displacement blowers AKA superchargers. There have been significant improvements in turbos, also in the blowers.

"You walk around here like you own the place, just keeping you in check."
I'm sorry you feel that way. I try to state factual, not my daddy can beat up your daddy misinformation. I respect opposing opinions based in facts.

TJ; the biggest problem as you know in making power is the availability of good heads. Heads are where the power is, althou you can make up some of that with forced induction. I know Buick had some stage heads, Pontiac had their Ram Air, V being the best. Olds had thier W2's, just not to the extent that Chevy went. Front office politics, after all Chevy was and is the main player from their point of view. I still remember the first billit alum head for pro stock that I saw, they were from Oldsmobile. Just a block of alum with the ports, combustion chamber etc machined in. No water except in the front and back. In my opinion the most expensive production engine to build is the Hemi 426, it does seem that the BBC has them covered in gas classes. If you get a chance do some hunting for the wild engine head designs done by Buick, Pontiac and Olds. Just have a drooling towel handy, and have sweet dreams, your wife may think that you're dreaming of another woman. There was a dual overhead cam with no valves, I think Pontiac, not sure. Some were working on air valve springs, however I've not heard anything about it in years. Was suppose to be possible with the advancement in computer engine controls. Infinite valve timing.

Well, I got to get to work "Work" anbody remember TJ Crebs.

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The light at the end of the tunnel, may just be a train coming!

TJ, while we are stirring the pot, the power adder in question was the water injection that was needed to control detonation, not the turbo...

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If you think no one cares, try missing a couple of payments...



FIAA!

SFPP!