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I am having one heck of a problem with this project. It started out with a cracked head. Then, I decided to upgrade and forked out $$$ for the Weber/Offy/Pacesetter as well as exhaust, water pump,radiator.

I ordered a REMAN head from RAMS CYLINDER HEAD in Missouri. I did not know that there should be NEW ONES somewhere so I bought REMAN. I do know that a lot of theses" HEAD SHOPS" aren't worthy and most of those have 120 day warranty ($310). RAMS have a three year so I went with them.$385 (complete)

About every part I received had issue s,as either being, wrong part,defective, missing parts etc

I finally turned the last bolt Yesterday evening and was very much looking forward to . Truck cranked up, oil pressure 62. It had been running for about 15 minutes, temp had reached 160 and all was well. Seconds later, the dreaded MILK SHAKE started erupting out from the valve cover. I immediately shut her down.. I had to thoughts,a bad REMAN and OR FAILED HEAD GASKET. I am pretty anal about things and I did every thing possible,To make sure ALL was well. I checked ,rechecked and double rechecked most ALL things. For it to have pushed so much water into the oil so quickly and at so low of temp, I have a hard time thinking it is the head itself. (NO VISIBLE CRACKS)

I spent all day cleaning the GOO off the rocker shafts, valves springs cam etc. I finally got the head off tonight and ABSOLUTELY NO visible sign ( that I can see) of ANYTHING WRONG. The crack on my was very visible after it was cleaned and the truck was running,starting great.

I have not been able to contact the SHOP yet, to ask how much was milled. DO I NEED A SHIM?

Here are some pictures of the gasket on the block and the head it self showing the orange sealing line. There are several areas that look odd or unsealed.

This is my FIRST Head Job so I don't know what it should, look like.

Can anyone give me some advice as what to do?

How does the gasket look from Your view? Do I need a shim?
Throughout this whole build, parts have been a real FUBAR so if the gasket is "Upside down" it would have to have been made upside down. The picture shows the gasket as I installed it.

Flatness of head?, Well I did think a lot about it and I knew that I was tapped out $$ and if the block was ^%%% then so was I. I did not "Chase the Thread with an actual "Thread chaser". I did clean the holes and threads very GOOD. MY thought was that if I were installing NEW BOLTS, I would ,for sure "Chase" the threads. Because I was so careful to make sure that the same bolts went back into the same holes.

Between the OFFENHAUSER INTAKE, WEBER CARB AND THE NEW/RE MANUFACTURED HEAD, I had to purchase three sizes of pipe taps, drill bits, pipe nipples and an assortment of Brass fittings to complete the install.

The PACESETTER HEADER is another story. I guess between the Long bed and the Four Wheel Drive the " It WILL FIT YOUR VEHICLE" Ad is a LARGE STRETCH. What does ONE do about the E-BRAKE bracket? Do I bend the arm a bit to fit past the header? Can I relocate it? I have thought about making a few measurements and head to a junk yard and find suitable E-Brake hardware that would locate it to the middle away from header. Use one that has a small handle and mount it next to the 'HUMP". REALLY, what are YOU GUYS doing about the "FIT issues?

Oh and the header installed was 1/8" away from the floor board directly behind the gas peddle. that took about four hour to button up. And the CROSS MEMBER. Mine ended up about six inches from the collector. I used a turn down, cut off the exhaust manifold off a 1987 JEEP CJ7 to get by and under the CM

I used a METAL FELPRO and a FIBER PACESETTER GASKET and I ended up , just barely slipping by the CLUTCH ARM

"BACK TO THE HEAD/GASKET"

NEW BOLTS and THREADS CHASED, WILL HAPPEN THIS TIME

Also, would using ACETONE as a cleaner cause a chemical reaction with the gasket material, if I did not "wash" the chemical off.

What should ONE wash the surfaces with, just before INSTALL??

Thanks

Bill

Here are a few pictures

Just a few more.

Bottom of the head picture--center of the head, outside edge between cylinders 2&3 there is a groove cut into the head. Looking at the head gasket there is a small hole adjacent to a larger head bolt hole. High pressure oil comes up the small hole then through the groove to a larger head bolt hole and thus up into valve lifter cam area. This is an area where oil and water can get together so look for problems there. Either gasket problems or maybe even a crack in that area of the head or block. Lets hope not.

Your thinking is half correct. Acetone was the right way to go, however, I'd be surprised if surface contamination is to blame for your troubles. Solvent residue really shouldn't matter for something as tuff as head gaskets and their mating surfaces. You aren't mistaken though - there will technically be left over impurities once the solvent dries away. Near-perfect(reagent grade) solvents are prohibitively expensive too. Thankfully, for most purposes, including yours, hardware store variety solvent is plenty good.

In structural bonding, where near-perfect decontamination is required, they use the 'double wipe method', which as I understand it, simply brings down the leftover contaminates by another order of magnitude or two by giving the wet(with acetone) surface a dry wipe before it is allowed to dry on its own. Wet towel in one hand, dry towel in the other. Wax on, wax off, so to speak.

For a decontaminated, bond-ready surface, solvent is the best final prep, and acetone is the most available solvent. IPA would work as well. We use plain ol cheap-o brand tri fold paper towels, because they have fewer contaminants in them than woven rags or other shop cloth. That way, you can afford to frequently switch to a clean towel.

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75 Mikado G180/4sp Desert Tortoise

Is this where You speak of? #2 and #3 valve areas were cleaner than #1 and #4

What about the "Blue" shop towels from parts store?


Thanks

Bill

The oil/water was drained immediately and the top end is clean. Not much will "CUT" this goo, PURPLE POWER barely breaks it down with much brush scrubbing on all the Rocker Assembly parts. After cleaning ALL parts were soaked in clean oil.

I really don't want to drop the oil pan and wanted to clean out the oil/water best as possible without removal.

Kerosene seems to break it pretty well though. Can I fill the oil pan with kerosene, let it sit a while then drain. Refill (full) and let sit for a couple of days, then drain.? Refill ( to spec ) with clean oil. Once I get things together, ruin a while (how long?) then drain, change filter and refill with clean oil. Should this method be OK??

Thanks

Bill

#1. The pic you drew the circle around is the correct area. The groove he is talking about is on the head itself.

#2. You could do what you mentioned, but it is not the best way. And IMO, taking a shortcut now, would probably lead to a teardown later, so it comes down to whether you want to take the risk...

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If you think no one cares, try missing a couple of payments...



FIAA!

SFPP!

Well, here is picts of the bottom of the gasket. What does it look like.

Also, the locating studs seem/look/appear to be taller than the hole in the head is deep. The only way I had to measure was to take a Q-Tip stick set next to stud and mark with a razor. I took the stick and puut in hole at the shoulder. With gasket off, it is definitely taller than the hole is deep. With gasket on, the stud appears to be the same length as the hole with gasket is deep. It seems like there is not much distance for the gasket to compress without bottom out on the shoulder of the hole. Is there a need of a shim?

I have been trying to get a hold of the shop to check on how much was milled.

I just got off the phone with the HEAD SHOP. The head was pressure tested and milled. OF course with a THREE YEAR WARRANTY I would assume that it was tested.

Lets talk about head bolts, I am assuming that new bolts should always be used. Are not HEAD BOLTS, STRETCH BOLTS. Designed to stretch at first torque step and lock at second step. Hence the bolts only STRETCH ONCE???

Of course the Fellow at the shop said, "Absolutely "that could be my problem.

Thoughts on this??

Thanks

Bill

I think you are on the right track with the locator rings. That could easily cause a leak if the head has been milled, and perhaps in some former owner's hands the block was as well. That looks tall to me looking at it, but its hard to tell for sure. I am not sure if there is an easy way to measure that head to see how much material has been removed. Even with one to compare to it might be difficult to be very precise. Hopefully they can tell you how much they took off, but if it was reman it may have been milled before they got it.

Just thinking out loud here, but I wonder if taking a bit off the locator rings would hurt anything? Grind off some to bring the height down, and help it fit better. I had to leave one out on one truck I replaced the head on, was just very careful with gasket placement, and it worked out ok.


The other thing that comes to my mind is the block. Is there any chance it had straight water in it during a cold snap? If it froze it could have cracked. Check over your freeze plugs and see if any of them have moved. You might also see about having the head checked locally to see if the rebuilder missed something. Usually they crack around the exhaust valve seats but it could have a problem in other areas like if it had frozen too.

Beyond that I'm running out of guesses. The timing cover could have a leak potential to mix water with oil maybe. You could get a cooling system pressure tester and try to force the leak, but odds are it won't be anyplace you can easily see even with a UV light and tracer dye in the cooling system.

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95 Isuzu Trooper Daily Driver
86 Isuzu Trooper reliable backup
77 LUV 2wd stock beltway blaster (resting)
79 4x4 LUV project: 2.6L, 5spd, 31s (eventually)

MEPR: Man, my 4x4 makes all other LUVs look good

I,m with XL on this one. I would definately grind down about half the distance of the locator rings to be sure. They only have to locate the head until you properly torque down the bolts. I would check the flatness of the block if you haven't already. I have had to plane down more than one block because it has a tendency to distort and pull up around the head bolts, especially if it has been over torqued in the past. I also used to spray the head gasket with silver paint lightly before installation--on both sides--as the metal particals in the paint would settle into any minute or porous cracks that were unseen. Dosen't even have to dry--just paint lightly and drop it on.
I also determined that 70 ft lbs is a bit too much for an aluminum head judgeing by the block distortion found on many. Used 55-60 ft lbs instead. Never any more failures after that. Also Toyota, Nissan, etc only use about 55 lbs or so with their similar aluminum heads, just my thing here so do what you want.
Like XL here I can't think of any more ideas.

I have new head bolts and a chaser ordered. The locators actually tapped down a bit. I do believe that my huge mistake was to reuse the bolts

I called FelPro and they said to put the gasket on dry. I used Permatex Copper Spray on the intake and header and was considering using on the HG

Thanks for the advice and suggestions

Bill

Head gaskets go on dry. And you may want to get another new one, and not reuse the first new one.

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OK, I'm over it. Where's the beer?

YUP, have one "pre-ordered, along with new head bolts, rocker assembly studs and nuts, thread chaser

Thanks

Bill

I only see a bit of roughness around that oil port on the block side of the gasket (thats what the silver paint smooths/seals by the way) but nothing denoting leakage at the orange seal ring surronding it. Guess what the orange seal ring stuff is? Yup, a small bead of permatex sealant. I also only use Fel Pro gaskets as you do.
If after all this carefull reassembly and care it still gets water in the oil then you have an unseen crack in either the head or block probably in that area. The only other area could be a defect in the front of the head near the heater hose return port leaking water into the timing chain cover. Might be a good idea to pressure test the radiator/cooling system before you restart the engine and with the valve cover off, look/listen for leakage somewhere.
Good luck and keep us posted.

You, have stated "Silver Paint". What is the difference between the SILVER and COPPER paint and where do I find it? How come the "Old Experts" keep saying "IT GOES ON DRY"? I called FelPro and they said dry, why? I know that the copper sealant, sealed the exhaust and intake. I might be a bear to remove, but my plan,is, not to remove the head any
time soon. I don't like planning for failure.



What kind of "DEFECT" do I look for at the front cover?

Thanks

Bill

Isuzu head gaskets go on dry, the thinking is the aluminum head & cast iron block expand & contract at different rates & they shouldn't be glued together. Is this correct? Who knows? If both surfaces are flat & clean & everything is installed correctly you don't need sealer on the gasket, but it's your choice to use it or not.
Is it possible you cracked the water jacket when you tapped the heater hose connection? Or when you screwed in the fitting? I ask because I cracked a high-dollar shower valve once trying to get that little extra partial turn.
If you have a crack somewhere in the head it may not open up until it gets to operating temp. You could heat the head in an oven & visually inspect it while hot, but still might not find anything.

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'78 Chevy LUV,1.9,4sp,headers,31's,SAS Dana 30,Dana 20,SOA rear w/Aussie Locker, rough body, bought new 12/4/78.
'87 Trooper,2.3,5sp,headers,31's,ball joint flip & spacer,Aussie Locker rear,Superwinch hubs,brush guard w/5.5K winch,more to come.

They say dry because it's best to error on the side of caution in case someone piles on a huge layer of sealer/goop which does not work. The word here is a very thin layer of sealer, and I believe silver or copper may do the same thing in this case as the metal particals are what you are after anyway. Just a very small amount smeared on maybe with a finger in a few concerned spots. I always used a cheap spray can of any silver paint I could find, nothing special. Spray worked good because you could hold the can way back and just mist on a light covering. If you notice, the gray part of the head gasket has a similar coating of something like paint on its composition already. I would just do what you are comfortable with. Probably both ways will work just fine.
And Yes the aluminum head does "creap"with temperature changes and is why the paint is better than an actual sealer.
Hope all this helps

I have built many engines, several with aluminum heads. I have never added sealant to any of them, this includes my stock LUV engines and my sprint car engines that ran 16 to 1. If the surfaces are clean then it won't be a issue. I would be looking at a bad gasket, crack in the head or block. I did have a late model dodge that we thought the heads were cracked, it turned out to be a timing cover housing that had eroded away. Check the timing cover close, that could be the issue as well.

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Certified pilots, looking down on people since 1903.