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 Post subject: Re: My '76 2x4 LUV build
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 5:46 am 
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I dropped the head off at the machine shop today, just to get a reco to factory spec without new valve springs.

But I after talking to the guy, he said they can do a full reco on the head with flow porting, new dual valve springs, stainless valves, new rockers etc and Crow mild performance cam, all for around $1650 (aust). Turns out they can also do a chemical clean and x-ray check on the block, only $80,,, then if it checks out ok they'll do bore and hone for $50 per cylinder, $60 to deck the head face.
Plus polish the crank in-house for $60 or outsource the crank for a new grind, balance and polish for $200.

He's done plenty of these for the Gemini crowd over the years and reckons the little 1.6 litre can be bored out using the same crank & conrods up to 1.9 litre, but if I did that, I'd have to go for new pistons & rings to suit, and I'd be mad not to get the crank done at the same time, so why not pay the extra & get new grind (stroked) and upgrade the conrods etc while I'm at it?

Hmmm, more $$$ on the thing, but I need new pistons & rings anyway, so maybe I should pay the extra & get the bore increase & go for the flowed head and performance cam. I've already got a good set of headers and high flowing exhaust system, the Lynx manifold, Dellorto carb are on their way,,, hee hee for a four banger, this thing will be off it's head :)

I'm pretty excited that for just under $2500 I can build a pretty off it's head four banger without any chassis upgrades, or changing of engine mounts and the like, and no modification approvals needed, and externally the engine will look like a standard G161 on all accounts except for the exhaust system, induction manifold and carbie :P

I think the '53 Holden is going to have to wait a little longer before I get back to it LOL

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 Post subject: Re: My '76 2x4 LUV build
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 6:42 am 
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[quote="Sherro57"]I dropped the head off at the machine shop today, just to get a reco to factory spec without new valve springs.

But I after talking to the guy, he said they can do a full reco on the head with flow porting, new dual valve springs, stainless valves, new rockers etc and Crow mild performance cam, all for around $1650 (aust). Turns out they can also do a chemical clean and x-ray check on the block, only $80,,, then if it checks out ok they'll do bore and hone for $50 per cylinder, $60 to deck the head face.
Plus polish the crank in-house for $60 or outsource the crank for a new grind, balance and polish for $200.

He's done plenty of these for the Gemini crowd over the years and reckons the little 1.6 litre can be bored out using the same crank & conrods up to 1.9 litre, but if I did that, I'd have to go for new pistons & rings to suit, and I'd be mad not to get the crank done at the same time, so why not pay the extra & get new grind (stroked) and upgrade the conrods etc while I'm at it?

wouldn't it be cheaper to start off with a 1.8 or 1.9 block instead of boring yours? I have seen a few combinations of block, crank and heads on ozgemini that people made good power with, problem with the 1.9 is that there is so little material between cylinders they blow head gaskets under hard use which it would definitely see often. maybe get a 1.8 block and do the head work on your current head

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 Post subject: Re: My '76 2x4 LUV build
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:29 am 
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love4theluv wrote:
Sherro57 wrote:
wouldn't it be cheaper to start off with a 1.8 or 1.9 block instead of boring yours? I have seen a few combinations of block, crank and heads on ozgemini that people made good power with, problem with the 1.9 is that there is so little material between cylinders they blow head gaskets under hard use which it would definitely see often. maybe get a 1.8 block and do the head work on your current head


Hmmm, I was pretty excited after coming back from the machine shop today, and after posting on here I decided to check out ozgemini and joined the site. I read a few posts on what people have done and yep, I think you're right :roll:

Boring out a huge mass of the block will obviously have some ramifications. The only reason I thought bout ripping a chunk of metal from the walls of the 161 was due to the outrageous prices people are trying to sell half dead G180's for, and they want even more for a decent G200?

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 Post subject: Re: My '76 2x4 LUV build
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:59 pm 
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whatever ends up being more practical for you
they do some wild things with them on ozgemini, the g180 is the most popular for turbo applications, and between g180 and g200 for n/a builds. chambers between the 1.6 and 1.8 head are the same but there are different ports on some of them. its all on ozgemini somewhere

im ready to see this thing running! after the carb header etc you should read ctmandu's thread he used Yamaha R1 bike carbs and a megajolt programmable ignition system

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 Post subject: Re: My '76 2x4 LUV build
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:40 am 
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love4theluv wrote:
whatever ends up being more practical for you
they do some wild things with them on ozgemini, the g180 is the most popular for turbo applications, and between g180 and g200 for n/a builds. chambers between the 1.6 and 1.8 head are the same but there are different ports on some of them. its all on ozgemini somewhere

im ready to see this thing running! after the carb header etc you should read ctmandu's thread he used Yamaha R1 bike carbs and a megajolt programmable ignition system


Both the G161 motors were running, and I'm extremely surprised the one out of the '76 LUV ran at all as the Nikki carb was leaking like a sieve, the head is warped and corroded to the max, most of the coolant journals are blocked with scale, not to mention the holes in the side of the head leaking coolant everywhere after I scraped the gunk off the side. It looks like someone had a go with metal mend? :lol:
The #4 cylinder is scoured big time & #2 isn't much better. Most of the valves are roasted, pitting on the piston tops, broken rings, badly worn cam lobes,,,, you name it, but didn't blow much smoke which is weird? Even the timing cover is corroded,,, she was a pretty sad motor before I stripped it down :cry: At least the starter motor, alternator and distributor etc are good, and the block should be salvageable, and it came with a near new headers with 2 & 1/4" exhaust and it's got a good 5 speed gearbox hooked behind it.

The motor in the '79 looks to be in much better condition, but there's leaks from between the head & block, and oil in the coolant,,, not a lot, but enough to indicate oil is finding its way into the cooling system. So I'm guessing the head gasket has had it's day? The water pump is like a sprinkler, so far nothing else is obvious. She starts first time every time and drives okay.

Maybe I should just go the 283 I was offered, but registration fees on V8's in my state are ridiculously over priced, more than $1000 (Aust) per annum, and if I only had one car to register I could sort of cop that, but I'll have 3 vehicles to pay registration fees on, one is already a V8, and the 1953 will also be a V8, so more than $3k per year just in vehicle registration fees??? No I don't think so.

I think for now, before I go spending any more money on it, I'll get the G161 from the '79 pulled down to see what surprises are lurking in it's bowels,,, if it's not much better than the one I just pulled down, then I'll hunt down either a G180 or G200. Failing that I'll pick up a reconditioned 2.6 litre 4ZE1 or similar and throw it in :D

Hopefully everything in the 'G' series will work out though coz I just spent a heap on the Lynx manifold & Dell carbie

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 Post subject: Re: My '76 2x4 LUV build
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 2:43 am 
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another cheap bolt on is the electronic distributor from a mid 80s g200, I had one from a 85 Isuzu pickup with the 1.9 it bolts right in and you don't have to deal with points again. a 4ze1 would be fun if you wanted to go efi, a 4ze1 with the dollo's and header would be pretty fun if you could make that work without a computer. maybe 4zd1 dizzy? im sure someone on ozgem has already done the research for you. love that site

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 Post subject: Re: My '76 2x4 LUV build
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:33 am 
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love4theluv wrote:
another cheap bolt on is the electronic distributor from a mid 80s g200, I had one from a 85 Isuzu pickup with the 1.9 it bolts right in and you don't have to deal with points again. a 4ze1 would be fun if you wanted to go efi, a 4ze1 with the dollo's and header would be pretty fun if you could make that work without a computer. maybe 4zd1 dizzy? im sure someone on ozgem has already done the research for you. love that site


I was thinking of how to get a carburetted version of a 4ze,,, and yep,,, n/a & dollo's :D
Oh and the G161 in the '79 4x4 already has an electronic dizzy

Just looking on the Ozgem site and random Youtube stuff it seems a pretty popular choice in the Gemini drags and drift scene is doing G200 bottom end, +.40 bore & hone, dished pistons, flywheel weight reduction, ported 161 head & 4ze1 valves + springs, and performance cam. Obviously manifold & carbie changes, headers and hi flow pipe, then other things such as higher volume & electric fuel pumps, electric fans, larger volume radiators, Gilmer style front pully & belt. There's some dry sump set-ups?

There's guys doing water injection, we all know about the various turbo configurations, seen a few clutch driven blowers,,, some people obviously have way too much money???

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 Post subject: Re: My '76 2x4 LUV build
PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:55 am 
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Sherro57 wrote:
love4theluv wrote:
another cheap bolt on is the electronic distributor from a mid 80s g200, I had one from a 85 Isuzu pickup with the 1.9 it bolts right in and you don't have to deal with points again. a 4ze1 would be fun if you wanted to go efi, a 4ze1 with the dollo's and header would be pretty fun if you could make that work without a computer. maybe 4zd1 dizzy? im sure someone on ozgem has already done the research for you. love that site


I was thinking of how to get a carburetted version of a 4ze,,, and yep,,, n/a & dollo's :D
Oh and the G161 in the '79 4x4 already has an electronic dizzy

Just looking on the Ozgem site and random Youtube stuff it seems a pretty popular choice in the Gemini drags and drift scene is doing G200 bottom end, +.40 bore & hone, dished pistons, flywheel weight reduction, ported 161 head & 4ze1 valves + springs, and performance cam. Obviously manifold & carbie changes, headers and hi flow pipe, then other things such as higher volume & electric fuel pumps, electric fans, larger volume radiators, Gilmer style front pully & belt. There's some dry sump set-ups?

There's guys doing water injection, we all know about the various turbo configurations, seen a few clutch driven blowers,,, some people obviously have way too much money???


you would be surprised how cheap you can turbo these engines...
and yep the g200 with a 161 big port head w/4ze1 valves and a crazy cam is about as much power as you can get n/a with a g series.
the alternative for you would be to find the manifolds/turbo off a piazza and bolt it onto your worked head. its a direct bolt on here is the set I was going to use bolted onto a g180 head I paid $190us for the whole setup, then grabbed some Mitsubishi eclipse 440cc injectors that drop right in... never used it and sold it all but it can be done relatively easy... and the piazza is much more common over there than our version the impulse is here
Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: My '76 2x4 LUV build
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:12 am 
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I've made some progress this week on the build,,, the old rusty cab is now gone to scrap. And the '79 4x4 is awaiting the tear down so I can part it out for the replacement cab body & rear tub, the big bore head and disc brake front. ad whichever else is needed for the 2x4 build :D
Here's some clearer photos of the 4x4 I'll be sacrificing.

It still starts, drives, steers & stops,,, everything works, but she'll become a 2x4

Image

Image

After stripping anything useable from the rusty old cab, it was hauled off to the scrap yard, then I had heaps of room to pull the G161z and 5 speed from the rails so I can send the block & head off to the machine shop, then start to work on0 overhauling the chassis

Image

Image

I built a portable gantry for hoisting engines and vehicle bodies that can be seen in the photo above with the 4x4 behind the 1953 Holden, and use either a 2000kg chain block or modified 12v electric boat winch, then transfer the load (engine & box) onto a yard cart. The cart is good for 300kg and perfect if the grass is a little soft, you just gotta take it easy on corners and uneven ground, but other than that it's awesome for the job of pulling engine out in the back yard and wheeling them around to the front with ease.

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 Post subject: Re: My '76 2x4 LUV build
PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:51 am 
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I'm getting a little excited now as my new Dellorto DHLA 45 Carbie and Lynx induction manifold arrived today,,,
Image

I also stripped the Wildcat headers & finished then in ceramic high temp coating

Image

A pic of the underside gives a better idea of how the induction tubes flow,,,, these should make the G161z have some good lungs :ebiggrin
The rectangular paper filter as seen in the photo was standard fitment, but that will be replaced by a larger oval shape type and there'll be a set of ram tube venturi's (velocity stacks)

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 Post subject: Re: My '76 2x4 LUV build
PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:29 am 
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A little more progress today. I would have got more done but an old mouth injury came back with a vengeance yesterday and I had to go to the dentist. I'm still debating what hurt more having two teeth pulled or the bill afterwards :cry:
Anyway, I dragged the engine & gearbox into the garage last night and after work today I started to get the block ready to send off to the machine shop.

Image

I unbolted the gearbox, separated the clutch & flywheel, and pulled off any other ancillaries, brackets and fittings etc, plus knocked out all the welsh plugs,,, the coolant chamber around #4 was completely blocked with crystalized scale & crud,,, that would explain the hot spots in the cylinder bore & erratic temperature when it was running.

Image

All that's left is removing the caps so I can separate the crank and pistons, but I've got engine parts all over the garage floor so before I go any further I'm going to clean everything up and bag it all before I loose any parts. And I certainly don't want to make the same mistake as I did with the Rover v8 engine by removing the conrods & caps without keeping the sets together :D

Image

Image

Apart from the scale build up and blocked coolant galleries, I'm surprised how clean the internals of the engine is. Sure there's a little bit of gummed oil, but nothing like most engines I've had to pull down, no waxy deposits, no thick sludge? I'm pretty impressed.

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 Post subject: Re: My '76 2x4 LUV build
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 4:08 am 
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Well a bit of an update,,, it's been a while since I've been on here :P
I ditched the plan to rebuild he G161 or find another larger capacity G series and managed to locate a reasonable 2.3 litre 4ZD1 engine from a local salvage yard.

Image
Here's the motor fresh from the salvage yard loaded up in the back of the 4x4 TF series Rodeo :P

I figured parts are too hard to find on the G series and with thousands of dollars and countless hours of work, they don't really give a lot of gain, so I picked up the 4z & brought it home last week. I gave it a quick degrease before sending off with the Lynx manifold and headers that I was going to fit on the G series, plus the 5 speed gearbox to get a full rebuild by a reputable engine builder who is good mates with a good mate of mine.
Luckily the Manifolds can be matched to the 4z series without too much effort. The engine has been completely stripped and the block sent off to get a chemical clean, crack testing etc. and all turned up good. The head has been swapped for one off a 2.6 litre 4ZE1 as the ports have larger bore & better flow from standard to a 4ZD1 and much more meat for porting. Both engine & head is getting fully reconditioned and being fitted with over sized stainless valves, Stage 3 Cam, then decked to ensure it's nice & level. The OE fuel pump on a 4z is slotted in the cold side of the head and it gets in the way of the Lynx manifold, so the slots have been plugged and an electronic pump with pressure regulator will be used in it's place.
The block is currently at machine shop getting a bore & hone, oil galleries opened up a little for better flow, and a box of brand new goodies including a set of conrods, pistons, rings, cam, gaskets, belts and pulley's etc are waiting to be fitted after the crank comes back from getting a regrind & linish to the builders specs next week.

I had to get another flywheel, so I got hold of one from a 2.6 litre 4ze1 instead, and although some may argue that a heavy duty clutch would be better, I opted for a standard 4x4 clutch kit.

The gearbox has checked out fine as well which is a bonus, but I decided to get a new seal kit for it to save having to do it later.

I'll be making room I the garage at home over the next few days so that I can get the rolling LUV chassis in there and strip it down for a much needed clean and pull it down to send the chassis frame and front hangers off to get media blasted. Another friend has hooked me up with a bloke he uses for a good price, so almost 40 years of grime will be removed then strip it back to nice clean metal before fresh paint is put back on, then new rubbers, bushes and the like. It'll also be getting the disc brakes from the 4x4 '79 model I have

Here's some more pix of the engine after I picked it up. There's a box of assorted parts that came with it, and once I get a chance to take some of the fresh engine build, then I'll post some more :P

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 Post subject: Re: My '76 2x4 LUV build
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2014 6:50 pm 
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now that sounds like a heck of an engine build! that's about as good as it gets in this style of Isuzu engine
you will have to get it run on the dyno when it is done and see what kind of power it makes
are the combustion chambers the same size between the 4d and 4e heads or are you dropping compression a little bit? the deck would make up for it either way just wondering for future build

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 Post subject: Re: My '76 2x4 LUV build
PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:13 am 
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Hey nice build. Im looking into doing the same type of swap on my luv. I found this on turbogemini.com its a g200. Boy doesnt that look sweet. What did u pull that 4zd1 from?


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 Post subject: Re: My '76 2x4 LUV build
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:06 am 
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love4theluv wrote:
now that sounds like a heck of an engine build! that's about as good as it gets in this style of Isuzu engine
you will have to get it run on the dyno when it is done and see what kind of power it makes
are the combustion chambers the same size between the 4d and 4e heads or are you dropping compression a little bit? the deck would make up for it either way just wondering for future build


The engine guy reckons the 4ze1 head has bigger ports from standard over the 4zd1 and a little more meat to play with. The 4ze1 is a 2.6 litre and the 4zd1 is 2.3,,, apparently the bore size is up a little on the 4ze1, and not sure about chambers?
It'll have a basic set up just to get it running, but once in the car it'll be sent off for the carbie internals to be matched and then fine tuned on the dyno,,, so there'll be results right up for that.

I was chatting to him (the engine bloke) the other night and he's going to try going for what's referred to 'Over Square' on the build. The guy has build a lot of engines for speedway cars and bikes, and is a bit of a wizard. He owned a pretty renowned performance shop but has semi retired, and only wants to do the occasional build to keep himself busy. So he's asked I don't go throwing his name out too much. He wants to build engines for enjoyment, and not be under the pump with clients demanding work to be done. I'm not sure on what he's doing for compression,,, but I told him I don't want a high performance 4 banger,,, just a genuine street driver that can have the occasional squirt and do the odd street meet out at Willowbank Dragway :P But he did convince me to go for the stage 4 cam instead as he feels the stage 3 would be a little bland for my liking and would allow that bit more potential out of the overall build

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Last edited by Sherro57 on Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: My '76 2x4 LUV build
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:11 am 
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juans74luvn wrote:
Hey nice build. Im looking into doing the same type of swap on my luv. I found this on turbogemini.com its a g200. Boy doesnt that look sweet. What did u pull that 4zd1 from?


Yep,,, I've chatted to the guy on the phone a couple of times when I was looking at hotting up the G161 or getting a G200,,, but went for the 4zd1 instead. Those turbo manifolds not only fit the G161, G180 & G200,,, they also fit the 4zd and 4ze.

The 4zd1 engine was pulled from a 1988 Jackaroo, 4x4 Wagon. It's a Holden badged Isuzu wagon that's based on the Rodeo platform, no idea what they're called anywhere else in the world?

oh and turns out that the 4zd1 and 4ze1 are a fraction shorter in length than the G series engines, but the distributor is at the rear of the head, so this may cause a slight clearance issue with the firewall?,,, but nothing that can't be massaged out if needed :)

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 Post subject: Re: My '76 2x4 LUV build
PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:18 pm 
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here in the states it is the Isuzu rodeo
and yeah the turbo manifolds for the 4z engines but the ports aren't the same shape, not a huge problem at low boost and you can easily port match them for more performance

I really need to pick up another luv and build a 4 banger for it

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1993 Lexus SC400 my DD


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 Post subject: Re: My '76 2x4 LUV build
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:27 am 
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love4theluv wrote:

I really need to pick up another luv and build a 4 banger for it



Go on do it,,, you know you want to :P

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 Post subject: Re: My '76 2x4 LUV build
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 6:41 am 
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I did some rust repairs on the rear tub today. Overall it's pretty good, but she has the standard rusted out section behind the evaporation tank panel, so I marked it out, cut the rusty section out, then took a section from a rusty spare door to keep the profiles and welded it in. A mate was visiting and took some photos, so when he forwards the pix I'll post them here.
It's been a while since I'd done any sheet metal repairs larger than a 1/4" and I got a little carried away with a couple of stitches, putting a little too much heat in, and distorted the panel a little :( Nothing too drastic, but I should be able to shrink the distortion with a gas torch & wet rags.
So far the only rust repairs needed that I can see are the section between the cab and fuel cap which I cut and replaced today, and the lower front fender wing on one side.

I'm just hoping there's nothing lurking beneath the fenders :/

Oh and I ordered a dash cap last week, which should arrive by around the 10th Nov :P

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 Post subject: Re: My '76 2x4 LUV build
PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2014 8:52 am 
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I will probably have another engine long before I have a truck to put it in :lol:

and heck yeah man good progress glad to see someone getting another truck back in good shape
im still waiting to see this engine you are having built

_________________
1980 Mikado, Chevy 4.3 V6. Compcams 270HR, edelbrock intake and carb, vortec heads, s10 NV3500, stock 4.10 rear. The toy
1999 Isuzu Rodeo 4x4, 31" kumho mt's, the wife's daily driver
1993 Lexus SC400 my DD


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