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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:26 pm 
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Hmmm, I just looked in my Chiltons manual and it said to measure the gap between the cam and the rocker arms also. Does it really matter? I figure wether you measure it at the valve stem or the cam side, the rocker arm will tilt in the opposite direction making the gap the same from either side? I dunno, just trying to think it through, :lol: . I'd think it would be hard to stick the feeler gauge in between the cam and the rockers; there's not much space to work with; haven't tried it yet though.

What do you guys think? 8O

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:11 pm 
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just worry about the stem clearances. the cam to arm clearance isn't important. just get that adjusted and get on the road!

btw, how is it running right now?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:02 pm 
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Mmmmm, its running like crud honestly. :( I haven't done any work done on it since I got it all back together (finals week next week, ugh...), and I still need to buy that plastic piece where the vacuum lines hook up for the emissions system. I also need to adjust the valves, check ignition timing, do a post-rebuild compression test, fix the coolant leak, screw the hot air transfer tube back into the header so it won't sound like crap (its awful :roll: ), get an alignment so the steering wheel isn't cockeyed when going straight, and etc., etc.

So I've got some work to do yet, but the good is its not smoking anymore!!!!!! :ebiggrin Its not leaking coolant from the head gasket, it runs and I can drive it (just it dies when I let off the gas; it wont idle when hot), the engine looks way better and its all clean!! lol :lol: So I just gotta get some tuning work done on it and it should run great, I hope.

Again, any ideas what this thing is? I broke the two vacuum hose connecters off while cleaning the intake manifold, and I need to know what it is before I can order it, lol.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:17 pm 
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I think that stops the EGR from working until the eng. warms up. That is a temp/vac. switch. Proper name.... IDK.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 9:07 pm 
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Hmm, that would make sense. It seems to run alot better when its cold. It idles a bit high, but at least it doesn't die like it does when its hot, lol. I guess I'll tell the guy at Advanced Auto Parts that its a temp/vacuum switch thing; I'll bring in a pic of it too to see if it helps any. Thanks man. :ebiggrin

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:31 pm 
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an alternate view of the Emission system hoses

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:23 am 
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Thermal Vacuum Valve, thats it!!!! The guy at Napa said it was supposedly a ported vacuum switch, but thats definitely it in the pic.

I removed the thermal vacuum valve today (careful if u ever do that, half my coolant poured out after taking it out), plugged the leak in the coolant system (loose hose clamp at "T" connecter under intake manifold), and checked the valve gaps (all seemed ok actually, is this normal after a rebuild? a couple were a little tight on intake side, but that was about it). I also replaced some of the vacuum hoses that didn't fit snugly. I drove it around a bit before taking out the vacuum valve, and it definitely runs better now. It still has an exhaust leak at the header from the hot-air transfer tube, and I need to somehow find a replacement thermal vacuum valve, but its definitely coming together!! :ebiggrin

I'll let u guys know when it FINALLY is running perfect. Thanks again, I'm glad u had that diagram Figuarus, :ebiggrin.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:46 am 
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no prob.

when you adjusted the valves, did you make sure the lobe of the cam was pointing straight down?

this is the most accurate way of doing the adjustment.

once the lobe is pointing down, the rocker arm will have some play. make sure it's within spec. .006 on intake, and .010 on the exhaust side.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:54 am 
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Hey guys,

So I got some good news and some VERY bad news. :esad

So the good news, I got the truck running and I've been driving it the past week or so. I took it to the shop to get a professional tune up and to change the brake pads out, I paid the guy, and went out to inspect the job and stuff. Everything looked good, so I got in, started it up (it started way easier than before, :ebiggrin ), put it in gear and stepped on the gas. It we"CLANG" then it died. I thought, "Oh crap, what could that be?" So I got out, checked it out, couldn't see anything in the way of the fan or anything. So I got back in, turned it over, and instantly knew it was toast. It lost all compressing and it turned freely. I called the mechanic guy out again, grabbed a flash light and shined it into "Oil" cap on top of the head. Unfortunately we saw that the camshaft wasn't turning at all.

The timing chain broke. So it looks like it's dead in the water for a little while. We towed it up to my grandparents place where it'll sit til I get some more cash, :evil: . Luckily my parents will let me keep the Saturn for a little while longer, :) .

Any suggestions on how I should go about it? I'm hoping that I won't have remove the cylinder head again! I know that I'll have to remove the radiator, fans and belts, water pump, and timing cover, but will I have to remove the oil pan? Or the cylinder head? Or anything else?

I read through FullaLuv's "Birth of an Engine" thread, so I'm pretty sure what I'm getting into, however my Chilton's manual says something about a Jackshaft/Layshaft? I'm wondering if someone can explain this or tell me if I have to mess with it or not. Is the Jack/Layshaft something I have to worry about?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:47 am 
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Very good post with nice pics. I had to do the timing chain and didn't pull the head off. See if this helps;

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12104&hilit=install+timing+chain
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23002
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22906
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22771

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:17 pm 
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That sounds like a pretty queer coincidence. If it was me I would suspect foul play. On the other hand why would you take it to a so called professional for a tune up? After you did everything you have done.........I dont get that. That motor had a lot of moisture in it and I cant say I'm surprised. That sucks. Probably will need a rebuild. Maybe not though Research it. It turns over..well used to. Probably should have changed the oil every hundred miles and added marvel mystery oil for the first few oil changes. Couldnt of hurt. I feel sad for you. I dont mean to come across as rude.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:19 am 
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If you cranked that engine over after the chain broke, I see new valves in your future.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:51 pm 
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:evil: SCREW THAT, IF THE DAMN MECHANIC TOUCHED THE ENGINE, MAKE HIM PAY! :twisted:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:05 pm 
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Hey, Merry Christmas guys!!!!!

Sorry, theres not much new going on with the truck at the moment. Right now I'm on winter vacation in Phoenix, I AM SO JEALOUS OF THE WINTER WEATHER HERE!!!!! Its about 74 degrees out and I'M LOVING IT!! :ebiggrin :ebiggrin :ebiggrin . After the timing chain broke, I towed the truck up to my grandparents house and thats where it'll sit for a while.

Hmmm, I tried to pull the foul play card on the guy at the time, but he said that because I saw it run when he pulled it out, any suspicions of it are null and void (not sure how this works, but whatever). I guess since the guy has done a lot of favors for me in the past with my last car, I didn't feel right about accusing him.

As far as my intentions of taking it in, that was a misnomer; I didn't actually have a "Tune up" done. The hot air transfer tube from the intake manifold to the header wasn't screwed in properly and I didn't have enough strength to bend the steel pipe back in myself (on the header side). Also, I despise carb work, (even though he didn't do anything to it, he "recommended" it be rebuilt). I told him to hold off on that. Also, I had them check the brakes, the tranny fluid, the alignment (the guy who runs the alignment computers wasn't working that day, so I couldn't get it done), etc. Apparently the rear brakes were so far out of adjustment, they weren't even reaching the drum! :esurprised . So no wonder the guy said I needed new front brake pads while the rear looked nearly new. This also explains why I spun around on dry pavement when I slammed on the brakes to avoid an elk (stupid things are EVERYWHERE in Estes).

They said that the tranny fluid was the consistency of mud. I don't think the lady that owned the Luv truck before me did any maintainance work on it at all!!! :evil: So, they siphoned the old fluid out and ran their special oil injection machine through it. They showed me a sample and it was gross (it was pure black and had chunks in it). I don't think I could have done that myself either with out their special equipment.

The last thing they did (and sorta the first) took several hours for some reason (although they only charged me for half and hour on it :ebiggrin ). Getting that stupid hot air transfer tube bent right so it would thread straight took 2 guys; one to unscrew the pipe on the intake side and hold it tight, and another to bend the header side back into shape. Haha, the guy asked me what I did to it, I guess I had trouble getting the header off initially. I unscrewed the pipe, but I couldn't pull it out of the hole so I pulled on the header until I got if off the studs in the head. Afterwards I was able to pull it out, lol.

Ugh, oh well. I got to drive it about 150 miles or so after the rebuild. I was about to change the oil, but ya ur right, a little MMO wouldn't have hurt any.... :( I ran a can of Seafoam through it, and even put a little of it in the oil. Do you think that could have affected the viscosity of the engine oil negatively? The chain broke maybe 30 miles after adding it to the oil..... :? I think your right about the moisture thing though, I didn't even think about it...

Well, I won't be working on the truck for a little while; I can't really get to it (right before we left Colorado a couple days ago we got buried with over a foot of snow; no way I'll be getting the truck out before April.... :econfused ), I don't have any money left to spend on it (I added up the total cost of it a couple days ago; I've spent over $1600 on it since September!!! Thats about twice as much as I was expecting! :esurprised) , and luckily my parents are gonna let me use the Saturn until summer (haha, sucks for my sis :lol:).


So I guess this concludes this cylinder head rebuild thread. Thanks for all of your help everyone!!!!! :ebiggrin I definitely couldn't have gotten this far with out ya! :wink: When I can get to the LUV again, I'll start another thread about replacing the timing chain. :roll: Oh well, thanks again guys!

,Brian


Oh!! P.S. - Larphead, you mentioned I'll need a valve job in the future? Why would that be? I just got the seats reground and everything, do you think that maybe the pistons might have struck the valves or something? Unfortunately I did crank it over a few times after it broke (it will definitely need to be timed again), but I didn't hear anything grind or get struck. It just turned over freely real fast (no compression). Just wondering if you could explain this a bit... Thanks. :)

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:52 pm 
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I ain't Larp, but when the chain broke and you spun it over, the pistons hit the valves that were open and bent them most likely, these are known as 'interference fit' engines, which means, "it bent the valves when the chain broke"...

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:49 pm 
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mytmouz wrote:
I ain't Larp, but when the chain broke and you spun it over, the pistons hit the valves that were open and bent them most likely, these are known as 'interference fit' engines, which means, "it bent the valves when the chain broke"...



yep thats it.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:08 pm 
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Hmmm, I've researched interference fit engines and I couldn't find any info on the G180 about it. Is the G180 an interference fit engine? Is there enough clearance between TDC and the valves? My head's surface was also shaved .014" so the outlook looks grim... But I am just wondering if there's any chance that my valves arn't toast. Is there anyway I can tell without removing the head? Maybe by taking off the valve cover, I'll be able to see if any of the valves dont come fully up?

Hmmm, this could put a huge damper on the repair project.... Also, you guys mentioned moisture in the engine. How can I prevent moisture from getting into the engine while rebuilding it? I guess I could try limiting the amount of time I have the engine open... hmmm......

Idk, I'm starting to think that if I do attempt to fix it, I should just rebuild the whole thing. Or maybe throw in another cheap 4 cylinder? Trooper engines mate up to the tranny right? Ugh, i dont know what I'm gonna do yet to be honest.... :cry:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:57 pm 
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Bent valves will trash the compression.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 8:35 pm 
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shelly, check your PM's. i may be able to help you

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