LUVTruck.com

Hey guys,

I don't know where to turn to to ask questions for this kind of stuff, so I thought I would at least start here.

I know some of you are professionals in your fields, and so now I ask for a bit of your time and some ideas.

***Warning, this is probably going to be a long post****

I was talking to my wife the other day about various subjects, and the topic of gas prices came up.

My 720 Nissan gets somewhere between 16 to 18 mpg in the city. It makes me money, and is a very useful vehicle. I wanted to get a motorcycle this year and use it as my daily commuter, but I was voted down. I was, however, given free reign to pursue any project I desired to follow.

I have decided to build myself a car. Nothing terribly fancy, (at least by my standards) but something streamlined and efficient.

Yes, I know this is a tremendous and long-term undertaking, but I am determined to see it through to the end.

I have a few design ideas rattling around in my head, but the overwhelming choice of parts and how to power and move this thing from my brain into my driveway is a daunting task.

I have been looking at my basic chassis/unibody/suspension setup, and while nothing has yet been built, it's final design will be dependent on what i use to power it. So far, I have opted for an MR setup (mid-engine, Rear wheel drive) This will keep the bulk of the vehicle's weight over the rear wheels and would balance out the fact that i would be in front.

My dilemma is the selection of the powertrain. The first iteration of my plan was to use a motorcycle engine from a mid 80's Honda Goldwing, but im not sure about how to connect it to a final drive. A few goldwings have a reverse gear, so that isn't the issue. The issue is cooling and reliability. In a motorcycle, the engine performs well, it's cooling ability is supplemented by the fact that you have air to help this process. It's application in this regard will greatly hinder this ability, and would only cause frustration.
the lack of an alternator also makes me consider other engines.

After looking at the powertrain setup on the older Volkswagen models, I considered using this option as it is both air cooled, has an alternator, and lends itself to it's use in my project. However, I have heard several different opinions as to it's reliability. it's a small relatively lightweight engine, and because of its' intended automotive application, would suffice in my endeavor.

Another powerplant option I was considering was a Mazda rotary. I figured that a lightweight, high-rpm engine would be awesome for power, but I have also heard that they can be just as bad as bigger v8 engines in regards to fuel consumption. Coupled with the fact that they are notorious for blowing apex seals and leaking oil (or so I've been reading alot of) It would lead me to believe that this just isn't the engine of choice for what I'm looking for.

A small Civic or Suzuki L4 engine seems to be the answer, but I have reservations about cooling, weight and transmissions. While I could use this mounted sideways, I would like to keep everything as streamlined as possible. ( This is, after all a tandem seat configuration vehicle) I have yet to completely weigh the pros and cons of this option, but then again, that's why I'm here.

Again, I know this is a HUGE undertaking, and who knows, maybe this could be a new mass produced economy vehicle?

Just a note here, If you have nothing but personal criticism post it somewhere else. I know what a project like this entails and know that lots of time and money will be invested in this work. I don't plan on getting this thing built in the next few months, and there is still lots of drawing board designs to be explored. Designs change all the time based on lots of factors, and that's why I'm here. I need feedback. An expert I am not. Nor am I an engineer or designer. I 'm just a guy with an idea, and want to see this come to fruition. I'm not going to do this alone, and all credit is going to be given to those who help. I'll even drive this thing TO YOU so you can enjoy it too!

Help me guys, you're my only....er, my , um......yeah. Give me some feedback... (bad princess leia "only hope" joke)

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To the Oquirr hills for awesome thrills! Go-go 4wd, Activate!

Subaru flat 4 cylinder. The factory turbo ones are 250 hp. All the latest sand rails run them...

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If you think no one cares, try missing a couple of payments...



FIAA!

SFPP!

You might want to check the state and federal laws on how you will get it registered.,if any emission laws apply, the use of SAE lighting etc. I worked for a car mfg and have seen what it takes to get a prototype street legal.

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Certified pilots, looking down on people since 1903.

... And insured.

Thanks for the input guys,

As far as the registration and insurance goes, so long as it meets state safety requirements and is inspected by a Highway patrol officer, and is accepted, I can apply for a VIN number with the DMV and register it as a replica/specially constructed vehicle.

My insurance will cover it so long as it can be registered and proves to be a safe vehicle.

This isn't going to be an incredibly fast vehicle, but will at least be able to reach 90mph. (not that I plan on traveling that fast)

That subaru boxer engine isn't a bad idea. I hadn't even considered that.
what kind of transmissions can they be mated to? I'm not terribly familiar with Subies.

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To the Oquirr hills for awesome thrills! Go-go 4wd, Activate!

The Honda Goldwing motor is a win win. Dead solid reliable(just change the timing belt) plenty of hp and good mileage. Liquid cooled it does not need to be in the wind, shaft drive, cut the driveshaft and build a rear 1/2 to attach to whatever reared you use. As a matter of fact that is whatnwenare going to use in our 1970 Subaru Sambar (look it up). Reverse is a slight issue in the older motors, but your not backing up for a mile we have figured on a small electric motor to reverse.

SRAD

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My Wife is faster than you think you are

Not sure why you are on a Chevy LUV board asking questions about building your own car from the ground up. I am sure with a quick search on Google there are much better boards to research and discuss this.

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Certified pilots, looking down on people since 1903.

If its MPG that has you concerned,

http://www.flytheroad.com/

http://www.smartusa.com/smart-center/

or any of the thousands of small cars that can be found anywhere...Hell my 2004 cavalier gets 30-34 mpg.

HAS to be cheaper than reinventing the wheel (so to speak) and building a car.

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I like my steak like I like my women, young, tender and bloody.

All I need is my weed, women, and wine. -Edge City Outlaws

I understand that this is a LUV forum. I ask this here because I know you all have lots of knowledge on different topics. some of you have built some of the most awesome trucks with little more than a shell.

mpg is just an additional benefit of this project. its is not it's primary objective.

look at the blastolene brothers. look at the cars they make. they are works of art.

why can't i do the same?

As far as the goldwing motor goes, after looking at it again i think it will indeed be the motor of choice.

i didn't really think about the fact that i can use custom radiators to cool this thing. Shaft drive did appeal to me from the moment i first thought about it, but didnt think this thing would handle a 1500 lb car.

guess i underestimated the weight of the goldwing itself.

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To the Oquirr hills for awesome thrills! Go-go 4wd, Activate!

Yes, many here are into things like Luv's with 350's, but are friendly, creative people with experience solving problems. While your project is totally illogical, so are many of the others here. It is not about getting a highly efficient car, but showcasing your talents.

I have no specific suggestions, but suggest looking at modern, multi valve engines. My other Chevy is an 02 Cavalier with a Ecotec engine. It has decent performance and I get 33 mpg running 75-80 on the road. Before I had it, I had a 92 Grand Am with the HO Quad 4 and a 5 speed. It would lay rubber at speeds not legal on the road at the time. Neither would be a good choice for you. Look for something smaller but similar. You can mod it, part of the Quad Four's performance came from its 10:1 compression ratio. It actually got better millage than its more civilized brothers. Compression boosting parts are quite common. VW's got good millage not due to efficiency, but because they were small and gave limited performance. Modding an old engine to high efficiency would be tough. I am unfamiliar with the Goldwing engine, and can't say if it is a good starting point or not. I am sure they are common and have performance parts available. Many performance mods are about increasing efficiency. You can apply the gains to either power or millage.

I have built no less then 8 Dwarf Cars, look them up. They are 5/8 scale 34 Fords with motorcycle engines used to race. I had a Bridgeport Mill, a CNC lathe, mig and tig welder. You will need all of this and more. The engine is the least of your worries. What suspension are you going to use? Do you have any geometery angles in mind for suspension? Is the frame going to have crumple zones or shear points? You cant just wake up and decide to build a car, I spend at least 25 hours on a CAD program before I think about a frame. What thickness of material will you be using for the frame? C channel or box tubing? Will the motorcycle charging system provide enough amps? Have you thought about brakes? There is more to this then I think you know.

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Certified pilots, looking down on people since 1903.

Thanks for more input guys. Yeah, i know that this is an illogical project, but its being done for the sake of having a project and having something to show for it

The design i put down on paper is hard to describe without having a picture to show you. I will attempt to scan it and post it here to show you in the next few days.

The easiest way to describe it is as follows

Frame will be a box channel ladder frame with tube rollcage. The plan is to use 2024 t3 aircraft aluminum to skin it. There is the possibility that fiberglass will be used for certain components.Front suspension will be a short long arm with coil overs and disc brakes. As far as the rear suspension is concerned, it is still being debated whether it will use an irs or solid axle. Its going to be dependent on whether i can find a suitable rear end. There will be some parts that will be either purchased off shelf and others that will be fabricated.

Access to a cnc mill, brake, pipe bender and other shop tools isnt an issue. My co worker has agreed to help in this endeavor

Yeah, i COULD buy a car and soup it up and have all the work done FOR me, or i can use what skills i have and learn what i dont know.Its not about the end result, its about the process.

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To the Oquirr hills for awesome thrills! Go-go 4wd, Activate!

A few thoughts.
Power to weight ratio. Obviously for a given amount of HP any loss of overall weight will result in more power. So, big motor, light car = performance+!
Mileage. Same equation with results = more MPG, reduced HP =increased mileage.
Aerodynamics smooth slick and low = increased mileage AND sex appeal.
While I have no interest building a complete vehicle, here are my general plans.

Originally these
had a rear mounted 360cc 2 cylinder 2 stroke with a 3 speed trans and are actuallynSMALLER than a golfcart. So going to a 1000cc 4 stroke 5 speed will be an immediate increase performance.(Goldwing) because the original engine trans and differential are all one unit there had to be a replacement. The narrowed 9" I had was useless size weight and strength for the motor setup planned. So I shopped around until I found a Cushman cart reared, sturdynenough to handle my HP but small and light enough to be efficient. The Wing motor is a flat opposed 4 and with liquid cooling it will survive well in a mid engine configuration. The down side, older Wing motors have no reverse, solution simple. I have looked at several options simplest solution is a 12volt motor with a lever that pulls it into contact with with the tire. Second a pulley at the driveshaft yoke and a motor with a pulley. A cable would pull an idler pulley into place tightening the belt and allow the motor to reverse the truck. While mileage is a point to this so is putting a cool retro truck back on the road.
Good luck with your project! Now let's see some pics!

SRAD

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My Wife is faster than you think you are

as to making a auto im of little help.....but.....for the fuel think out side the box on this one

CNG fuel is very available in most of UT state, and is WAY lower then the nat avrege price for it.


hears some genral info
http://www.cngutah.com/faq.php
http://www.cngprices.com/station_map.php


id likly have a auto that ran on it, but the nearest public filling spot is about 100 miles away.
and its not at are home....so that can not be done ether...

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86trooperT/D 2.2
84 L\B 4x4Diesel LS 2.2
84 S\B 4X4 gas rust bucket 1.9
86 L\B 4X4 gas 5 speed 2.3
the twins, 81 pup and 81 LUV both are diesel 2.2



The Energizer Bunny is trying to keep up, and is starting to gasp for air!!

Thanks for the ideas guys.

at the moment, I think the Goldwing 1500 will work plenty well for the intended application.
A thought did occur to me while at work today.

as far as i remember, The older 1500 GW motors have a gravity feed fuel supply to feed the carbs, and while im sure it's not such a big issue to address, I am curious as to how to pump fuel to these carbs.

Given the size of these carbs, i dunno if 3 to 5 psi would be too much supply and cause them to bog out?

im assuming that a fuel pressure regulator with a return line would fix this issue, but i would like to double check.

_________________

To the Oquirr hills for awesome thrills! Go-go 4wd, Activate!

Should or rerun to the original design gravity feed and mount fuel tank above the level of the carbs

SRAD

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My Wife is faster than you think you are

We ran many gravity fed engines ( FJ1200, GSXR 1100, early blackbird, GS1100 etc) at 3 psi in Dwarf Cars without any problems.

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Certified pilots, looking down on people since 1903.